Comments on: .Trashes, .fseventsd, and .Spotlight-V100 http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/ a disgruntled developer taking a stand in the information multiverse Fri, 30 Jul 2010 02:29:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Hostile Fork http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1118 Hostile Fork Sun, 23 May 2010 14:47:53 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1118 @Jake - Hmmm... it worked for me with a FAT32 device. What filesystem is the drive in question? @Jake - Hmmm… it worked for me with a FAT32 device. What filesystem is the drive in question?

]]> By: Jake http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1117 Jake Sun, 23 May 2010 12:54:03 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1117 Putting .metadata_never_index doesn't stop Spotlight from indexing the drive on my Snow Leopard OS. Added the volume to the Privacy tab doesn't work either because it is removed once the drive is ejected and doesn't reappear in the Privacy tab once the drive is re-inserted. Putting .metadata_never_index doesn’t stop Spotlight from indexing the drive on my Snow Leopard OS. Added the volume to the Privacy tab doesn’t work either because it is removed once the drive is ejected and doesn’t reappear in the Privacy tab once the drive is re-inserted.

]]> By: Randy Steer http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1075 Randy Steer Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:57:05 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1075 Thanks. I've never really understood why MacOS "speak with forked tongue" -- seems an unnecessary complication, like the Windows Registry. (Dear Windows: If a program needs configuration data, store it in a damn file in the program directory!) I guess the extra "._" files make sense for cross-file-format compatibility though. Thanks. I’ve never really understood why MacOS “speak with forked tongue” — seems an unnecessary complication, like the Windows Registry. (Dear Windows: If a program needs configuration data, store it in a damn file in the program directory!)

I guess the extra “._” files make sense for cross-file-format compatibility though.

]]> By: Hostile Fork http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1074 Hostile Fork Wed, 14 Apr 2010 20:32:14 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1074 <i>Oh, there is one other thing that the MacBook wrote on the flash drive that you didn't mention in your blog: a file (not folder) in the root called "._.Trashes".</i> Hi Randy; I didn't see that particular file in my case. But Googling for "._.Trashes" shows you're not alone. As a general concept, the ._ prefix is explained here: http://www.westwind.com/reference/OS-X/invisibles.html "These files are created on volumes that don't natively support full HFS file characteristics (e.g. ufs volumes, Windows fileshares, etc). When a Mac file is copied to such a volume, its data fork is stored under the file's regular name, and the additional HFS information (resource fork, type & creator codes, etc) is stored in a second file (in AppleDouble format), with a name that starts with "._". (These files are, of course, invisible as far as OS-X is concerned, but not to other OS's; this can sometimes be annoying...)" Oh, there is one other thing that the MacBook wrote on the flash drive that you didn’t mention in your blog: a file (not folder) in the root called “._.Trashes”.

Hi Randy; I didn’t see that particular file in my case. But Googling for “._.Trashes” shows you’re not alone.

As a general concept, the ._ prefix is explained here:

http://www.westwind.com/reference/OS-X/invisibles.html

“These files are created on volumes that don’t natively support full HFS file characteristics (e.g. ufs volumes, Windows fileshares, etc). When a Mac file is copied to such a volume, its data fork is stored under the file’s regular name, and the additional HFS information (resource fork, type & creator codes, etc) is stored in a second file (in AppleDouble format), with a name that starts with “._”. (These files are, of course, invisible as far as OS-X is concerned, but not to other OS’s; this can sometimes be annoying…)”

]]> By: Randy Steer http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1072 Randy Steer Wed, 14 Apr 2010 15:40:10 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1072 Thanks! I just noticed those files/folders on a flash drive that had I most recently used with a borrowed laptop (Win XP Pro) while on vacation. I thought the laptop had been infected, since it had outdated anti-virus and no firewall. (It came from my girlfriend's office and she didn't want me putting on any of the GOOD security tools I use.) BUT, having read this, I remember that the day before the vacation, I had been in a computer store and had plugged the flash drive into a MacBook on sale, to see if it could transparently read my existing files. So that's how I got these stupid things! I can stop writing my long e-mail to my girlfriend about how her office laptop may be infected... (I was checking out the MacBook because with slightly dropping Apple prices and the rare sale, the MacBook was "only" $200 more than comparable WinXP and Win7 notebooks. (Comparable except for the Mac's dinky 13 inch screen, that is, but I guess that contributes to the long battery life.) I'm going to put the files you recommend on all my flash and USB drives just in case I ever plug any of them into a Mac again. Oh, there is one other thing that the MacBook wrote on the flash drive that you didn't mention in your blog: a file (not folder) in the root called "._.Trashes". Thanks! I just noticed those files/folders on a flash drive that had I most recently used with a borrowed laptop (Win XP Pro) while on vacation. I thought the laptop had been infected, since it had outdated anti-virus and no firewall. (It came from my girlfriend’s office and she didn’t want me putting on any of the GOOD security tools I use.)

BUT, having read this, I remember that the day before the vacation, I had been in a computer store and had plugged the flash drive into a MacBook on sale, to see if it could transparently read my existing files. So that’s how I got these stupid things! I can stop writing my long e-mail to my girlfriend about how her office laptop may be infected…

(I was checking out the MacBook because with slightly dropping Apple prices and the rare sale, the MacBook was “only” $200 more than comparable WinXP and Win7 notebooks. (Comparable except for the Mac’s dinky 13 inch screen, that is, but I guess that contributes to the long battery life.)

I’m going to put the files you recommend on all my flash and USB drives just in case I ever plug any of them into a Mac again.

Oh, there is one other thing that the MacBook wrote on the flash drive that you didn’t mention in your blog: a file (not folder) in the root called “._.Trashes”.

]]> By: jcast http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1051 jcast Sat, 20 Mar 2010 03:17:51 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1051 Thanks very much for this info. Extremely helpful and nice to know I can stop annoying things from happening in circumstances where another or specialized system tries to do things with these files that it shouldn't do. Thanks very much for this info. Extremely helpful and nice to know I can stop annoying things from happening in circumstances where another or specialized system tries to do things with these files that it shouldn’t do.

]]> By: Jim Knoble http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1030 Jim Knoble Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:01:50 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1030 Folks connecting external drives to a Mac should mount them read-only if they don't want them written to (just like a savvy user would 'mount -r' or 'mount -o ro' under Linux). Here's a prefpane ("ReadOnlyMounter") that helps with that: http://homepage3.nifty.com/extant/MacOSXsoft/MacOSXsoft.html I agree, the use of .Cruftiness to tell Spotlight and fseventsd and Finder not to drop crap on my drives is irritating. I use these to help with that: http://www.zeroonetwenty.com/blueharvest/ http://myhowto.org/mac-os-x/52-disabling-spotlight-in-os-x-leopard-for-the-removable-drives/ To be honest, I'd rather live with this stuff than with Windows Vista constantly rearranging my desktop icons and resetting my folder views on its whim, because it thinks one file is a photograph, so therefore the whole folder must contain photos and i must want to view them as tiles, even though every other bleeding time i viewed the folder i viewed it as a Detailed List. At least Apple makes it possible to turn it off.... Folks connecting external drives to a Mac should mount them read-only if they don’t want them written to (just like a savvy user would ‘mount -r’ or ‘mount -o ro’ under Linux). Here’s a prefpane (”ReadOnlyMounter”) that helps with that:

http://homepage3.nifty.com/extant/MacOSXsoft/MacOSXsoft.html

I agree, the use of .Cruftiness to tell Spotlight and fseventsd and Finder not to drop crap on my drives is irritating. I use these to help with that:

http://www.zeroonetwenty.com/blueharvest/
http://myhowto.org/mac-os-x/52-disabling-spotlight-in-os-x-leopard-for-the-removable-drives/

To be honest, I’d rather live with this stuff than with Windows Vista constantly rearranging my desktop icons and resetting my folder views on its whim, because it thinks one file is a photograph, so therefore the whole folder must contain photos and i must want to view them as tiles, even though every other bleeding time i viewed the folder i viewed it as a Detailed List. At least Apple makes it possible to turn it off….

]]> By: adam http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1027 adam Wed, 06 Jan 2010 04:16:33 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1027 Awesome! Thanks for this post. I have no proof, but I suspect these were screwing up my RAID. Incidentally, I have my RAID drive added to be excluded from both Time Machine and Spotlight, yet these directories are still created and contain loads of data. Awesome! Thanks for this post. I have no proof, but I suspect these were screwing up my RAID. Incidentally, I have my RAID drive added to be excluded from both Time Machine and Spotlight, yet these directories are still created and contain loads of data.

]]> By: W^L+ http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1018 W^L+ Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:15:05 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1018 @Jeremy: It is certainly true that most unix-like operating systems AND WINDOWS will automatically write to a file system. However, file system recovery is a basic operation common to ALL operating systems. If the default behavior of Mac OSX prevents recovery, then it is simply the wrong action. It really is not hard to wait and see whether the user is trying to perform actions that require those added files to be there. As a Linux user, I am often called upon to recover data for Windows users. Mac users probably get just as many requests. If the OS trashes the drive before one can perform the recovery, then the above comments about not being acceptable for serious usage are true. @Jeremy:
It is certainly true that most unix-like operating systems AND WINDOWS will automatically write to a file system. However, file system recovery is a basic operation common to ALL operating systems. If the default behavior of Mac OSX prevents recovery, then it is simply the wrong action.

It really is not hard to wait and see whether the user is trying to perform actions that require those added files to be there.

As a Linux user, I am often called upon to recover data for Windows users. Mac users probably get just as many requests. If the OS trashes the drive before one can perform the recovery, then the above comments about not being acceptable for serious usage are true.

]]> By: Jeremy Friesner http://hostilefork.com/2009/12/02/trashes-fseventsd-and-spotlight-v100/#comment-1016 Jeremy Friesner Sat, 05 Dec 2009 05:32:32 +0000 http://hostilefork.com/?p=129#comment-1016 Actually, many unix systems will write to a mounted disk automatically, unless you mount the fs with the -noatime flag. I think if you mount the disk read/write, that's giving the OS permission to write to the disk. If you don't want it to do that (e.g. Because the fs integrity is damaged) the you need to be sure to mount it read only. Apple's focus is rightly on providing the best user experience to the non-technical user. People trying to rescue hosed filesystems or avoid harmless dot-files are a special niche, and a secondary concern at best. Actually, many unix systems will write to a mounted disk automatically, unless you mount the fs with the -noatime flag. I think if you mount the disk read/write, that’s giving the OS permission to write to the disk. If you don’t want it to do that (e.g. Because the fs integrity is damaged) the you need to be sure to mount it read only.

Apple’s focus is rightly on providing the best user experience to the non-technical user. People trying to rescue hosed filesystems or avoid harmless dot-files are a special niche, and a secondary concern at best.

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